30 Jul
2013
30 Jul
'13
1:35 a.m.
The problem is that you need to create a completely new LUT. The labels that get displayed with the standard LUT are going to be totally random with respect to what they should display.
On 7/29/13 2:20 PM, Mark Plantz wrote:
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the reply. I will definitely go into the LUT and change those values to some specific region. My main concern is that I think all of these "out of bounds" labels are the symptoms of some larger problem. The segmentation looks very strange as compared to a typical segmentation (i.e. an 'aseg.mgz' file). In fact, the segmentation appears to be labeling "left-<region" in the right hemisphere. Have you seen a segmentation file that looks like the once I attached before? I am used to seeing segmentation files such as the one attached to this e-mail.
- Mark
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Douglas Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> wrote:
Mark, the only thing that is wrong with the out of bounds regions is that they are not represented in the LUT. Once you add an index corresponding to the index of the segmentation to the LUT, it will not show up as "out of bounds". The brain mask has nothing to do with it. best doug On 7/29/13 12:50 PM, Mark Plantz wrote:Sorry about that. I received the manual segmentations from a UNC medical group <http://www.med.unc.edu/bric/ideagroup/free-softwares/unc-infant-0-1-2-atlases>. I actually asked the main researcher about the out of bounds regions. He thinks that as long as the segmented file lines up with the input volumes, a few out of bounds regions might be OK. However, these seg volumes look very different from a typical .aseg volume that I am used to seeing after recon-all is run. Maybe the segmentation is simply incompatible with FreeSurfer? Thanks for the help. These files are a nightmare! - MP On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Bruce Fischl <fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> wrote: can you cc the list please? Maybe we should start over. Where did you get the manual segmentations from? On Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Mark Plantz wrote: Ahh, right. So it looks like the red regions appear to be averaged around 248. I am not sure why that is the case or if it has any significance. I attached a screen shot for reference. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Bruce Fischl <fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> wrote: it isn't a registration file. You should just specify it as a volume on the freeview command line, the same as brainmask.mgz On Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Mark Plantz wrote: I actually tried to view the brainmask.mgz file with the segmentation file [Freeview calls it 'registration file' I believe]. For some reason, the file will load without segmentation, but when I attempt to add the registration file, I get an error message: "Failed to load MRI ~/.../../../brainmask.mgz Could this potentially be part of the problem? Thanks MP On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Mark Plantz <markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> wrote: It looks like the values vary from 20-120 depending on which region I run the cursor over. However, aren't those the values that correspond to the brain.mgz regions? Is there another way to find the segmentation values? On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Bruce Fischl <fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> wrote: I mean the segmentation values that give you the "out of bounds" message On Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Mark Plantz wrote: Hi Bruce, Do you mean the brainmask.mgz values? I'm not sure what the segmentation #'s exactly are. Thanks! MP On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Bruce Fischl <fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> wrote: Hi Mark what #s are those segmentations? It should be trivial to just add them to the end of the LUT. I wouldn't let them be out of bounds as there might be code around that might ignore them then. cheers Bruce On Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Mark Plantz wrote: Hi Doug, Thanks for the reply. After doing some research, it looks like messing with the LUT might be a risky decision [and way out of my abilities!]. If I were to use this segmentation file to create a .gca atlas using the command mri_ca_train, do you think it would yield problems or be inaccurate? I guess what I am trying to figure out is if the color lookup values are even significant when using the segmentation file to create an atlas? Thanks for all of the help with this. Best, MP p.s. I attached the photo of the segmentation volume because this e-mail is sort of old On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Douglas N Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> wrote: you need a new LUT. See my comment from a few emails ago. On 07/24/2013 03:29 PM, Mark Plantz wrote: I'm not actually quite sure what it means either. When I use the command line: tkmedit $Subject brain.mgz -segmentation <seg.mgz>, I can run the cursor over various regions and the name of the region should pop up. For some reason, the red regions are simply labeled as "out of bounds." I'll keep messing with tkmedit and let you know if I find out what the problem is. Thanks guys! MP On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Douglas N Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> wrote: what do you mean that they are out of bounds? On 07/24/2013 03:25 PM, Mark Plantz wrote: I guess the problem is that those regions should not be out of bounds. Maybe I need to create a new Lookup Table for the infant mri's? Is that possible to do? On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Douglas N Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>> wrote: Hi Mark, please post to the list and not to me. thanks doug On 07/24/2013 03:21 PM, Mark Plantz wrote: I guess the problem is that those regions should not be out of bounds. Maybe I need to create a new Lookup Table for the infant mri's? Is that possible to do? On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Douglas N Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>>> wrote: what is the problem exactly? The fact that there are red regions or that that the red regions are labeled as "Out of Bounds"? If the latter, you will need to create a LUT that matches your regions. the out of bounds means that the index in the volume does not match an index in the LUT. doug On 07/24/2013 01:26 PM, Mark Plantz wrote: Finally got the registration to work. However, it looks like the out of bounds regions (in red) are still present (even though the regions are well within our boundaries). Is that expected since they were labeled in the original segmentation volume? Is there anyway to correct those? Thanks for all of the help! - Mark p.s. I attached a picture of the original brain.mgz file viewed with the corrected segmentation volume On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Mark Plantz <markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>>>> wrote: Finally got the registration to work. However, it looks like the out of bound regions (in red) are still prevalent. Is that expected since they were present in the original segmentation volume? Would there be anyway to correct those? Thanks for all the help! - MP On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Mark Plantz <markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>>>> wrote: Nevermind, it turned out to be a permissions issue. Thanks! On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Mark Plantz <markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu> <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu <mailto:markplantz2016@u.northwestern.edu>>>>>> wrote: Thanks for the reply Doug. I recently ran the bbregister command and attempted to view the results using tkregister2. I received the following error: dhcp-165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>>>>:Desktop IngvalsonLab$ tkregister2 --mov /Volumes/Wong_Lab/CochlearImplant/UNC_NiFTI/infant-1yr-mgz/mri/avgseg.mgz --reg /Users/IngvalsonLab/Desktop/register.dat --surf tkregister_tcl /Applications/freesurfer/tktools/tkregister2.tcl INFO: no target volume specified, assuming FreeSurfer orig volume. target volume orig movable volume /Volumes/Wong_Lab/CochlearImplant/UNC_NiFTI/infant-1yr-mgz/mri/avgseg.mgz reg file /Users/IngvalsonLab/Desktop/register.dat LoadVol 1 ZeroCRAS 0 $Id: tkregister2.c,v 1.121.2.1 2011/03/28 20:25:16 greve Exp $ Diagnostic Level -1 regio_read_register(): Undefined error: 0 Error reading subject from /Users/IngvalsonLab/Desktop/register.dat ERROR: reading /Users/IngvalsonLab/Desktop/register.dat dhcp-165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232> <tel:165-124-23-232 <tel:165-124-23-232>>>>>:Desktop IngvalsonLab$ I do not believe it is a permissions issue? Could it simply be that the register was bad? Is there an easy way to open up the register.dat.mincost file to check the registration? Thanks again, MP On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Douglas Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>>>> wrote: You can try using bbregister. Normally, you don't use bbregister on a segmentation, but the segmentation index numbers just happen to be "T1-weighted". doug ps. Please remember to copy the list when responding. thanks! On 7/23/13 9:51 AM, Mark Plantz wrote: Hi Doug, Sorry about that vague explanation. So I received a series of infant brain atlases from a UNC medical research group (http://www.med.unc.edu/bric/ideagroup/free-softwares/unc-infant-0-1-2-atlases). I have a series of infant MRI's that I would like to segment (using the infant atlases, instead of the default adult atlas in FreeSurfer). As a preliminary step, I was attempting to check the alignment of one of the atlas files ('avgseg.mgz') with one of the input brains ('brain.mgz'). [I attached these two files, just in case]. So my command line would be: tkmedit $Subject brain.mgz -segmentation avgseg.mgz $FREESURFER_HOME/FreeSurferColorLUT.txt The result was the previously attached image. I was just wondering if there is any way to shift the two images manually so the alignment is better? Or maybe the two files are simply not compatible with one another? Thanks for all the help! Best, Mark On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Douglas N Greve <greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:greve@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu>>>>>> wrote: Hi Mark, I have no idea what you are doing. Can you send a command line? Are either of the images generated by FS? doug On 07/22/2013 03:56 PM, Mark Plantz wrote: > Hello FreeSurfers, > > I recently obtained a set of infant templates. Out of curiousity, > I decided to view one of the input brains with the provided segmented > volume file. It appears that there is some misalignment. I wouldn't > expect the alignment to be perfect, since I am basically overlaying an > average of multiple brains onto one. However, it looks like this > misalignment may be caused by either: 1.) the segmentation volume file > being shifted down or 2.) the slices not lining up properly (i.e. one > file starts before the other). > > Any ideas what could cause a problem like this? Could it be that > the segmented files are simply not compatible with FreeSurfer? > > Thanks for the help, > > Mark > _______________________________________________ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer_______________________________________________ Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu <mailto:Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.