Freesurfer

freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu

21 participants
30070 discussions

Using cortical segmentation in an anatomy project
by Ivan Blagoev Topolsky 01 Jun '06

01 Jun '06

Hello ! I work for the department of Anatomy (http://www.medecine.unige.ch/GRAC/) in the Centre Médical Universitaire of the Université de Genève (http://www.unige.ch/) We're planning to use the FreeSurfer software suite (or more precisely, the surface-based stream ) in a project that aims to synthesize brain models for teaching through rapid-prototyping (like 3D-printing) out of brain MRI, thus by-passing and giving an alternative to using dead human bodies for teaching. I have 2 questions relative to this project : - Does anyone here have recommendations (or references) about MRI sequence parameters to obtain best contrast for optimal segmentation ? Our preliminary test data wasn't top quality indeed, and we're planning to obtain new datasets. Does anyone has some tips to give us ? - The download page mentions that the source code will be soon released (https://surfer.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/fswiki/Download?action=highlight&value=s…) but that we'll have to wait until all non-releasable modules are replaced with open-source-able ones. How far has the OS'ing effort gone until now ? Most specifically, which modules are already OS'able ? And how much effort remain to be done ? When will we see an OS'ed version ? Under what license are those sources going to be released ? (GPL, BSD, other ?) Thank you and have a nice day. - Ivan Topolsky -

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Cortical thickness difference measurement
by Joao Pereira 01 Jun '06

01 Jun '06

Hello again! Firstly, let me thank you for your precious previous advices, which pointed me in the right direction. I have another question for you: I have read your article on Reliability of MRI cortical thickness measurements and its relation with scanner and field, and I would like to know what function did you use to subtract the subjects' average cortical thickness files in order to have a cortical thickness difference layer. I don't know if this is a very basic question, but I can't seem to find how to do it with FS. Thank you! Joao Pereira

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question about flattening surfaces
by adam walczak 31 May '06

31 May '06

Hello, I was searching through the wiki and ran across a page that said to use csurf to make full surface cuts in order to ultimately create flattened surfaces. But while perusing the support archives, it was said that csurf is no longer supported. Is this true? How then do you make the full surface cuts needed to create the flattened surfaces? Thanks Adam adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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mghWrite failure in mri_remove_neck
by Graham Wideman 30 May '06

30 May '06

Folks: In our first attempt at a complete run of recon-all, we hit this odd failure: recon-all stopped after the mri_remove_neck stage, claiming that: 1. mri_remove_neck couldn't mghWrite to nu_noneck.mgz 2. But then appeared to perform the neck removal anyway and write the output 3. But then the subsequent step: mri_em_register failed saying that it can't read nu_noneck.mgz ... and sure enough, there is no such file there. The recon-all.log for these steps is copied below. This doesn't appear to be a permissions problem, as the script happily wrote other files to the same mri directory. I do wonder whether mri_remove_neck was actually using the correct directory (we are not using the default SUBJECTS_DIR), but the logic for that is in an executable that I don't think we have source for? But the primary troubleshooting question is why the mghWrite failed, but processing continued anyway, with the subsequent "writing output" message suggesting success of this step (but no file to show for it). Clues? Thanks, Graham =============== #-------------------------------------- New invocation of recon-all Sun May 28 12:44:36 PDT 2006 /data/Structural/FreeSurferData/Testing20060528/subjects/40588a /brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer/bin//recon-all -s 40588a -autorecon2 subjid 40588a setenv SUBJECTS_DIR /data/Structural/FreeSurferData/Testing20060528/subjects FREESURFER_HOME /brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer Actual FREESURFER_HOME /brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer Linux gwlinux.ucsd.edu 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 #1 Thu Jun 2 22:55:56 EDT 2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize unlimited stacksize 10240 kbytes coredumpsize 0 kbytes memoryuse unlimited vmemoryuse unlimited descriptors 1024 memorylocked 32 kbytes maxproc 8180 ######################################## program versions used $Id: recon-all,v 1.17.2.4 2006/05/02 18:28:49 nicks Exp $ $Id: mri_motion_correct.fsl,v 1.4 2006/01/01 21:56:44 greve Exp $ mri_convert -all-info ProgramName: mri_convert ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:36-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_convert.c,v 1.121 2006/02/22 05:39:36 greve Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 $Id: talairach,v 1.2 2005/12/12 23:04:35 greve Exp $ mri_convert --version stable3 # $Id: mritotal.in,v 1.12 2004/02/12 05:55:18 rotor Exp $ Program nu_correct, built from: Package MNI N3, version 1.10, compiled by nicks@kani (i686-pc-linux-gnu) on 2005-11-15 at 21:02:27 ProgramName: mri_normalize ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_normalize.c,v 1.44.2.1 2006/04/12 02:02:57 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_watershed ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_watershed.cpp,v 1.48 2006/02/27 16:57:57 segonne Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_segment ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_segment.c,v 1.28.2.1 2006/04/12 02:02:58 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_fill ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_fill.c,v 1.101 2006/02/22 23:05:06 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_tessellate ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_tessellate.c,v 1.27.2.1 2006/05/02 21:41:01 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_smooth ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_smooth.c,v 1.13.2.1 2006/05/02 21:41:01 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_inflate ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_inflate.c,v 1.30.2.1 2006/05/02 21:41:01 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_sphere ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_sphere.c,v 1.38 2006/02/08 00:17:40 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_fix_topology ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_fix_topology.c,v 1.41 2006/02/06 19:41:59 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_euler_number ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_euler_number.c,v 1.4 2003/09/05 04:45:41 kteich Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_make_surfaces ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_make_surfaces.c,v 1.70.2.1 2006/04/12 02:02:59 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mris_register ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mris_register.c,v 1.32 2005/12/07 14:22:57 fischl Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mrisp_paint ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mrisp_paint.c,v 1.6 2005/02/14 04:30:19 segonne Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_label2label ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_label2label.c,v 1.23 2006/02/19 17:55:08 greve Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_em_register ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_em_register.c,v 1.52 2006/01/11 21:01:40 greve Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_ca_normalize ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_ca_normalize.c,v 1.31 2005/08/15 14:14:22 fischl Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_ca_register ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_ca_register.c,v 1.48 2006/02/23 15:53:27 xhan Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ProgramName: mri_ca_label ProgramArguments: -all-info ProgramVersion: $Name: stable3 $ TimeStamp: 06/05/28-19:44:37-GMT CVS: $Id: mri_ca_label.c,v 1.68 2006/01/22 04:26:26 nicks Exp $ User: graham Machine: gwlinux.ucsd.edu Platform: Linux PlatformVersion: 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 CompilerName: GCC CompilerVersion: 30400 ####################################### [...] #@# Remove Neck Mon May 29 03:13:29 PDT 2006 mri_remove_neck -radius 25 nu.mgz transforms/talairach.m3z /brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer/average/RB_all_2006-02-15.gca nu_noneck.mgz erasing everything more than 25 mm from possible brain reading atlas '/brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer/average/RB_all_2006-02-15.gca'... setting gca type = Normal gca type reading input volume 'nu.mgz'... reading transform 'transforms/talairach.m3z'... mghWrite(nu_noneck.mgz, -1): could not open file gcam->type = vox reading labels out of gcam file... removing structures at least 25 mm from brain... 11495184 nonbrain voxels erased writing output to nu_noneck.mgz... nonbrain removal took 9 minutes and 55 seconds. #-------------------------------------- #@# SkullLTA Mon May 29 03:23:27 PDT 2006 mri_em_register -skull -t transforms/talairach.lta nu_noneck.mgz /brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer/average/RB_all_withskull_2006-02-15.gca transforms/talairach_with_skull.lta aligning to atlas containing skull, setting unknown_nbr_spacing = 5 using previously computed transform transforms/talairach.lta reading 1 input volumes... logging results to talairach_with_skull.log reading '/brain-bin/fs_20060528/centos4/freesurfer/average/RB_all_withskull_2006-02-15.gca'... setting gca type = Normal gca type average std = 23.5 using min determinant for regularization = 55.2 0 singular and 6473 ill-conditioned covariance matrices regularized reading 'nu_noneck.mgz'... zcat: /data/Structural/FreeSurferData/Testing20060528/subjects/40588a/mri/nu_noneck.mgz.gz: No such file or directory mghRead(/data/Structural/FreeSurferData/Testing20060528/subjects/40588a/mri/nu_noneck.mgz, -1): read error mri_em_register: could not open input volume nu_noneck.mgz. Linux gwlinux.ucsd.edu 2.6.11-1.1369_FC4 #1 Thu Jun 2 22:55:56 EDT 2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux recon-all exited with ERRORS at Mon May 29 03:23:35 PDT 2006

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brain stem elimination
by Joongnam Yang 30 May '06

30 May '06

Hi all, I ran 'process volume' and 'create surface' and found that brain stem was attached to the left inflated brain. So, I editted 'wm' slices and got rid of the parts related to the brain stem in all slices. and ran 'create surface' again, but no change took place in the 'inflated brain'!!! Would someone suggest a solution to this? p.s. I ran 'recon-all' but it didn't make a difference, either. Nam.

1 0

Reconstruction -> cortical maps without using Talairach transform
by adam walczak 30 May '06

30 May '06

Hello, I want to make cortical surface images that we will overlay with our own masks. But we want to do this in native space. So, I was wondering if it is possible to go thorugh the reconstruction process to make the surfaces without ever using the talairach transform and keeping everything in its native space. Thank you, Adam adam --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

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problems with group analysis (mri_glmfit?)
by Lars M. Rimol 30 May '06

30 May '06

Hi, I did a group analysis on 10 subjects (as a test run) following the steps of the updated tutorial. I get no error messages, however, when I load the y.fsgd, there are no data points. These 10 subjects were chosen randomly, solely for the purpose of running through the group analysis procedure, so I don't necessarily expect significant findings but at least there shold be some datapoints, right? Make_average_subject, mris_preproc and mri_surf2surf went fine without error messages but the mri_glmfit script took less than 1 minute to run, which I think seems a little suspicious. What should "Matrix condition" be? Here, it was 1. And DOF? (It was 8). Is "OneSampleGroupMean 0" a sign that something has gone wrong? There was a warning message during mri_glmfit, but the fsgdf is in accordance with the tutorial: [lmr@ip45 ovelse]$ mri_glmfit --y rh.IQ.txt.thickness.10.mgh --fsgd IQ.txt--glmdir rh.IQ.txt.glmdir --pca --surf average rh --C contrast.mat gdfReadHeader: reading IQ.txt WARNING: gdfReadV1: no variables on 'Variables' line found INFO: gd2mtx_method is dods Reading source surface /home/subjects/average/surf/rh.white reading group avg surface area 948 cm^2 from file Reading in average area /home/subjects/average/surf/rh.white.avg.area.mgh Number of vertices 163842 Number of faces 327680 Total area 78857.140625 AvgVtxArea 0.481300 AvgVtxDist 0.814244 StdVtxDist 0.276731 $Id: mri_glmfit.c,v 1.78.2.5 2006/03/10 23:27:29 greve Exp $ cwd /home/subjects/ cmdline mri_glmfit --y rh.IQ.txt.thickness.10.mgh --fsgd IQ.txt --glmdir rh.IQ.txt.glmdir --pca --surf averageja rh --C contrast.mat sysname Linux hostname ip45.ucsd.edu machine x86_64 user lmr FixVertexAreaFlag = 1 OneSampleGroupMean 0 y /home/subjects/rh.IQ.txt.thickness.10.mgh FSGD IQ.txt glmdir rh.IQ.txt.glmdir Creating output directory rh.IQ.txt.glmdir Loading y from /home/subjects/rh.IQ.txt.thickness.10.mgh Matrix condition is 1 search space = 94836.7 DOF = 8 Starting fit and test 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 100% Fit completed in 0.0191 minutes Computing spatial AR1 on surface Residual: ar1mn=0.995564, ar1std=0.004225, gstd=6.106113, fwhm=14.378798 Writing results contrast maxvox sig=-3.35122 F=32.6872 at index 22070 0 4 seed=1149137562 Computing PCA (10) mri_glmfit done ------------ This is my FSGDF: $ cat IQ_fsgdf.txt GroupDescriptorFile 1 Title Gruppesammenligning Class lowIQ Class highIQ Variables Input TOP_161 lowIQ Input TOP_162 lowIQ Input TOP_163 lowIQ Input TOP_164 lowIQ Input TOP_165 lowIQ Input TOP_166 highIQ Input TOP_167 highIQ Input TOP_175 highIQ Input TOP_188 highIQ Input TOP_189 highIQ -- yours, LMR

3 2

mri_vol2surf problem
by adam walczak 30 May '06

30 May '06

Hello, I am trying to overlay my own ROIs onto the pial surface using mri_vol2surf. this is my command line: mri_vol2surf --src wrawKH_MAE3_4/Agap1_2_gap-nogap_p05u-05u --src_type analyze --srcreg wrawKH_MAE3_4/register.dat --fwhm 3 --hemi lh --surf pial --surfreg /cajal/public/programs/freesurfer/subjects/wrawKH_MAE3_4/surf/lh.pial --out wrawKH_MAE3_4/surf/lhpialoverlaytest --out_type paint --trgsubject wrawKH_MAE3_4 and this is my output: INFO: output format is paint srcvol = wrawKH_MAE3_4/Agap1_2_gap-nogap_p05u-05u srctype = analyze srcreg = wrawKH_MAE3_4/register.dat srcregold = 0 srcwarp unspecified surf = pial hemi = lh trgsubject = wrawKH_MAE3_4 surfreg = /cajal/public/programs/freesurfer/subjects/wrawKH_MAE3_4/surf/lh.pial interp = nearest float2int = round INFO: float2int code = 0 INFO: reading as a two-file NIFTI INFO: using NIfTI-1 sform Done loading volume INFO: smoothing volume at fwhm = 3 mm (std = 1.27398) Reading surface /cajal/public/programs/freesurfer/subjects/subject-unknown/surf/lh.pial MRISread(/cajal/public/programs/freesurfer/subjects/subject-unknown/surf/lh.pial): could not open file No such file or directory mri_vol2surf: could not read surface /cajal/public/programs/freesurfer/subjects/subject-unknown/surf/lh.pial No such file or directory the program seems to read the input images correctly, but can't read the surface images. I don't know what is up with the 'subject-unknown.' I specified the subject and it still doesn't know the path. I am kind of at a loss. Adam adam --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

2 1

Segmentation
by Joao Pereira 30 May '06

30 May '06

Hi, I tried to test FS cortical thickness analysis by using a batch of 10 subjects whose grey matter I manually deleted in the temporal lobes (a significant part at least). When I compared it to the original 10 images, little or none changes were significant! I checked the segmentation and I noticed that the grey/white boundary in the original subjects was too conservative, hence no changes were detected (at least I believe it is the only explanantion). Is it possible to change the segmentation parameters to make it more "agressive" or am I overlooking something? Thank you! Joao Pereira

2 1

regarding slice timing
by Sebastian Moeller 27 May '06

27 May '06

Dear fellow FreeSurfers, does anybody know how to account for interleaved slice acquisition of functionals in fs-fast? Basically all my scans were taken interleaved instead of linear ordered, so I think it might be a good idea to tell the system (even though the block design used should not be too sensitive). selxavg2 does sort of know a parameter acqorder that will be passed to fast_selxavg.m, but selxavg-sess does not allow to specify this parameter, and on first impression there seems to be no auto-detection. And the 3.0.2 version of fast_selxavg does not use the SliceDelay in any way. Ahoi Sebastian -- Sebastian Moeller Tel.: 04 21 - 2 18 - 78 38 oder 96 91 Fax.: 04 21 - 2 18 - 90 04 GSM: 01 62 - 3 25 45 59 moeller(a)brain.uni-bremen.de AG Kreiter / FB 2 Institut fuer Hirnforschung III Abteilung Theoretische Neurobiologie Universitaet Bremen Biogarten Hochschulring 16a Postfach 33 04 40 28359 Bremen

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