Dear FreeSurfers,
I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this?
Thanks in advance,
Pietro
Hi Pietro
ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all)
cheers Bruce
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote:
Dear FreeSurfers, I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this?
Thanks in advance,
Pietro
-- Pietro De Rossi, MD
Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma
NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy
Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma
Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358
Fax +39 (0)6 90280774
Thanks a lot Bruce. Cheers
2016-01-11 14:43 GMT+01:00 Bruce Fischl fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu:
Hi Pietro
ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all)
cheers Bruce
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote:
Dear FreeSurfers,
I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this?
Thanks in advance,
Pietro
-- Pietro De Rossi, MD
Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma
NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant’Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy
Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma
Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358
Fax +39 (0)6 90280774
Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer
The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
Hi Pietro, One additional thing to consider is that the ICV (eTIV) is entirely dependent on the Talairach transform. Frequently, the accuracy of Talairach transform isn¹t explicitly checked by users, because the surfaces, aseg, etc can be accurate even if the Talairach transform isn¹t.
cheers, -MH
-- Michael Harms, Ph.D.
----------------------------------------------------------- Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders Washington University School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 660 South Euclid Ave.Tel: 314-747-6173 St. Louis, MO 63110Email: mharms@wustl.edu
On 1/11/16, 7:43 AM, "freesurfer-bounces@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of Bruce Fischl" <freesurfer-bounces@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> wrote:
Hi Pietro
ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all)
cheers Bruce
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote:
Dear FreeSurfers, I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this?
Thanks in advance,
Pietro
-- Pietro De Rossi, MD
Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma
NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant¹Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy
Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma
Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358
Fax +39 (0)6 90280774
________________________________ The materials in this message are private and may contain Protected Healthcare Information or other information of a sensitive nature. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender via telephone or return mail.
I see. This is very helpful. Thanks
2016-01-11 15:15 GMT+01:00 Harms, Michael mharms@wustl.edu:
Hi Pietro, One additional thing to consider is that the ICV (eTIV) is entirely dependent on the Talairach transform. Frequently, the accuracy of Talairach transform isn¹t explicitly checked by users, because the surfaces, aseg, etc can be accurate even if the Talairach transform isn¹t.
cheers, -MH
-- Michael Harms, Ph.D.
Conte Center for the Neuroscience of Mental Disorders Washington University School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry, Box 8134 660 South Euclid Ave.Tel: 314-747-6173 St. Louis, MO 63110Email: mharms@wustl.edu
On 1/11/16, 7:43 AM, "freesurfer-bounces@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of Bruce Fischl" <freesurfer-bounces@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu on behalf of fischl@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu> wrote:
Hi Pietro
ICV (or eTIV) is computed using Randy Buckner's method, so you can cite his paper. Correcting for whole brain volume is certainly a reasonable thing to do but note that then you are testing a somewhat different hypothesis (that local atrophy is faster than whole-brain atrophy, as opposed to whether atrophy exists at all)
cheers Bruce
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016, pietro de rossi wrote:
Dear FreeSurfers, I am editing a paper on subcortical volumes in deficit schizophrenia after some reviewers' comments. On of them suggested me to correct the volumes of subcortical structures for whole brain volume instead of intracranial volume. In the reviewer's opinion ICV estimated by FreeSurfer 5.1 has a bad quality and is not reliable. However, neither the reviewer provides any evidence, nor I could find any... Is there any evidence for this?
Thanks in advance,
Pietro
-- Pietro De Rossi, MD
Sapienza Università di Roma, Facoltà di Medicina e Psicologia, Dipartimento NESMOS (Neuroscienze, Salute Mentale, Organi di Senso), Ospedale Sant'Andrea, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Roma
NESMOS Department (Neurosciences, Mental Health and Sensory Functions), School of Medicine and Psychology, Sapienza University, Sant¹Andrea Hospital, Via di Grottarossa 1035-1039, 00189 Rome, Italy
Laboratorio di Neuropsichiatria, Dipartimento di Neurologia Clinica e Comportamentale, IRCCS Fondazione Santa Lucia, via Ardeatina 306 - 00179 Roma
Tel. +39 (0)6 51501358
Fax +39 (0)6 90280774
The materials in this message are private and may contain Protected Healthcare Information or other information of a sensitive nature. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender via telephone or return mail.
Freesurfer mailing list Freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu https://mail.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/freesurfer
The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.
freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
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Bruce Fischl -
Harms, Michael -
pietro de rossi